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	<title>Comments on: Article in the New York Times, and maths education</title>
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	<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/</link>
	<description>Updates on my research and expository papers, discussion of open problems, and other maths-related topics.  By Terence Tao</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: AMS lecture: Structure and randomness in the prime numbers &#171; What&#8217;s new</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-23464</link>
		<dc:creator>AMS lecture: Structure and randomness in the prime numbers &#171; What&#8217;s new</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-23464</guid>
		<description>[...] many times before, (e.g. at my Simons lecture at MIT, my Milliman lecture at U. Washington, and my Science Research Colloquium at UCLA), and I have given similar talks to the one here - which focuses on my original 2004 paper with Ben [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] many times before, (e.g. at my Simons lecture at MIT, my Milliman lecture at U. Washington, and my Science Research Colloquium at UCLA), and I have given similar talks to the one here - which focuses on my original 2004 paper with Ben [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; All Sorts of Links</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-1307</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; All Sorts of Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 10:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-1307</guid>
		<description>[...] Terry Tao writes a long explanation of Why Global Regularity for Navier-Stokes is Hard. He also comments about the recent New York Times piece about him and about math education issues. The comment [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Terry Tao writes a long explanation of Why Global Regularity for Navier-Stokes is Hard. He also comments about the recent New York Times piece about him and about math education issues. The comment [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank You</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank You</p>
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		<title>By: Simons Lecture I: Structure and randomness in Fourier analysis and number theory &#171; What&#8217;s new</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Simons Lecture I: Structure and randomness in Fourier analysis and number theory &#171; What&#8217;s new</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-305</guid>
		<description>[...] lectures at MIT. (These lectures, incidentally, are endowed by Jim Simons, who was mentioned in some earlier discussion here.) While preparing these lectures, it occurred to me that I may as well post my lecture notes on my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lectures at MIT. (These lectures, incidentally, are endowed by Jim Simons, who was mentioned in some earlier discussion here.) While preparing these lectures, it occurred to me that I may as well post my lecture notes on my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On genius and hard work &#171; Mulling Math</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>On genius and hard work &#171; Mulling Math</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-174</guid>
		<description>[...] of this cult of all, it does permeate math as well. Terry Tao in particular mentions this here and more extensively in his excellent career [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of this cult of all, it does permeate math as well. Terry Tao in particular mentions this here and more extensively in his excellent career [...]</p>
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		<title>By: zf</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>zf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear RK

You said "Government funding for basic research in math or any other pure sciences are probably bloated, which explains why all these advance math department are seeing so many foreign-borns, when taking away these fundings would do more good and discourage such overt foreign slave-labor."

I am from a third-world nation. I intend on pursuing a math phd from a good school in the US. I doubt i'm 'slave labor'. I want to go to the US because it has many good mathematicians. Your phrase sheds much light on the limitations of your thinking.
Moreover, I do math not because it has applications...its a bit like asking a musician why he makes patterned sound-waves which can't be used for anything (perhaps heavy metal can scare away crows?).
Perhaps you've never felt joy doing math.
Strangely this is not much different from the joy ive seen felt by my physics peers..i remember being asked in my first year by a math student what possible use could there be of hilbert spaces...he shifted to physics...he loves QM and now he loves functional analysis too...but not ONLY because it has uses in QM or because its a beautiful fact that beautiful math explains deep things about nature. But because he now apprehends the beauty of the idea.
When i or any other serious student of math (even physics and some eco students) do math, applications is the last thing on out minds. Its not even a goal. And remember i come from a third world country -- earning 'big bucks' is a big thing for us and we are aware of the fact that a banker gets more money than a mathematician. And yet many of us want to stick to the 'irrational' choice of taking up math as a career and perhaps come to the US where the pay for being just a phd student is better than what it is in my country (that helps, I wouldnt care to own a bentley, but its nice to be able to buy a small house and pay for your kids education).   

- zf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear RK</p>
<p>You said &#8220;Government funding for basic research in math or any other pure sciences are probably bloated, which explains why all these advance math department are seeing so many foreign-borns, when taking away these fundings would do more good and discourage such overt foreign slave-labor.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am from a third-world nation. I intend on pursuing a math phd from a good school in the US. I doubt i&#8217;m &#8217;slave labor&#8217;. I want to go to the US because it has many good mathematicians. Your phrase sheds much light on the limitations of your thinking.<br />
Moreover, I do math not because it has applications&#8230;its a bit like asking a musician why he makes patterned sound-waves which can&#8217;t be used for anything (perhaps heavy metal can scare away crows?).<br />
Perhaps you&#8217;ve never felt joy doing math.<br />
Strangely this is not much different from the joy ive seen felt by my physics peers..i remember being asked in my first year by a math student what possible use could there be of hilbert spaces&#8230;he shifted to physics&#8230;he loves QM and now he loves functional analysis too&#8230;but not ONLY because it has uses in QM or because its a beautiful fact that beautiful math explains deep things about nature. But because he now apprehends the beauty of the idea.<br />
When i or any other serious student of math (even physics and some eco students) do math, applications is the last thing on out minds. Its not even a goal. And remember i come from a third world country &#8212; earning &#8216;big bucks&#8217; is a big thing for us and we are aware of the fact that a banker gets more money than a mathematician. And yet many of us want to stick to the &#8216;irrational&#8217; choice of taking up math as a career and perhaps come to the US where the pay for being just a phd student is better than what it is in my country (that helps, I wouldnt care to own a bentley, but its nice to be able to buy a small house and pay for your kids education).   </p>
<p>- zf</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 09:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW MATHEMATICS BEYOND THE LEVEL WHICH THEY ARE TO TEACH ?       1 2 [Next]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW MATHEMATICS BEYOND THE LEVEL WHICH THEY ARE TO TEACH ?       1 2 [Next]</p>
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		<title>By: oz</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>oz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-161</guid>
		<description>ST: 

I'm not religious. The question wasn't rhetoric but a real one. 
Sorry for the word 'all' which is a bit too strong - I actually meant 'some/most'.
Anyway, the comparative advantage and 'do what you like' arguments are good ones. Still its a matter of finding the correct balance. Whether society would be better off with more/less pure mathematicians than there are today I guess nobody could ever tell.

"Had Terry Tao worked on Engineering, I doubt that he would have contributed to Engineering as much as he has done in Mathematics. "

Probably true. But there are opposite examples like Shannon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ST: </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not religious. The question wasn&#8217;t rhetoric but a real one.<br />
Sorry for the word &#8216;all&#8217; which is a bit too strong - I actually meant &#8217;some/most&#8217;.<br />
Anyway, the comparative advantage and &#8216;do what you like&#8217; arguments are good ones. Still its a matter of finding the correct balance. Whether society would be better off with more/less pure mathematicians than there are today I guess nobody could ever tell.</p>
<p>&#8220;Had Terry Tao worked on Engineering, I doubt that he would have contributed to Engineering as much as he has done in Mathematics. &#8221;</p>
<p>Probably true. But there are opposite examples like Shannon.</p>
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		<title>By: kt</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>kt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>on math funding...

is it feasible to patent certain mathematical results so that royalt fees can be collected for commercial applications that make use of the results?  the fees can then go into the "International Monetary Fund For The Advancement Of Mathematics".

kt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>on math funding&#8230;</p>
<p>is it feasible to patent certain mathematical results so that royalt fees can be collected for commercial applications that make use of the results?  the fees can then go into the &#8220;International Monetary Fund For The Advancement Of Mathematics&#8221;.</p>
<p>kt</p>
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		<title>By: Khoa Tran</title>
		<link>http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/article-in-the-new-york-times-and-maths-education/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Khoa Tran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Terry raised a good point on "Comparative Advantage".

To address Oz's question "had all these terry tao’s and their likes worked on applied problems in engineering and science, wouldn’t their work lead to more useful stuff?", I'd like to add another argument, although it's non-falsifiable. Had Terry Tao worked on Engineering, I doubt that he would have contributed to Engineering as much as he has done in Mathematics. 

As Terry pointed out earlier, a person's productivity/talent depends so much on his passion and hard work rather than raw intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry raised a good point on &#8220;Comparative Advantage&#8221;.</p>
<p>To address Oz&#8217;s question &#8220;had all these terry tao’s and their likes worked on applied problems in engineering and science, wouldn’t their work lead to more useful stuff?&#8221;, I&#8217;d like to add another argument, although it&#8217;s non-falsifiable. Had Terry Tao worked on Engineering, I doubt that he would have contributed to Engineering as much as he has done in Mathematics. </p>
<p>As Terry pointed out earlier, a person&#8217;s productivity/talent depends so much on his passion and hard work rather than raw intelligence.</p>
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